Apr 6, 2021
Carolyn Casey '87, founder of Project 351, is joined in conversation fellow alum and Project 351 volunteer, Jamie Hoag '98. They speak about Carolyn's career leading up to the founding of Project 351 and the many ways that the Holy Cross community has lifted her up and supported her along the way. Carolyn's journey exhibits the incredible difference that one person can have in making the world a better place.
Interview originally recorded on September 25, 2020. Due to the ongoing effects of the pandemic, all interviews in season 2 are recorded remotely.
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Carolyn:
How can service be a unifier and remind us that we have more in common than what makes us different.
Maura:
Welcome to Mission-Driven, where we speak with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them. I'm your host Maura Sweeney from the class of 2007, director of alumni career development at Holy Cross. I'm delighted to welcome to today's show.
Maura:
This episode features a conversation with Carolyn Casey from the class of 1987. Carolyn is a native of Taunton, Massachusetts and hails from a Holy Cross family with her three siblings and father all attending Holy Cross. After studying as an English major, Carolyn began work as a hostess before launching her decades-long career blending government and service for others. Her career was launched on a political campaign leading to a role as the director of national affairs in the early years at City Year and a 20-plus year career running corporate social responsibility for Timberland.
Maura:
Today, Carolyn turns her focus closer to home running Project 351, a youth service nonprofit she founded that engages eighth-graders in service from all 351 cities and towns across the state of Massachusetts. She is joined in conversation by fellow alum, Jamie Hoag from the class of 1998. They speak about Carolyn's time on the Hill and the way that service fueled her successful career afterward. Carolyn's journey exhibits the incredible difference that one person can make in making the world a better place.
Jamie:
Hi, Carolyn, this is Jamie.
Carolyn:
Hi Jamie. This is Carolyn.
Jamie:
How are you?
Carolyn:
I'm doing great. So happy to be with you.
Jamie:
Where are we chatting? Where are you chatting from?
Carolyn:
Well, I'm happily in the backyard of our family's house in Falmouth, Massachusetts.
Jamie:
Very nice. I'm in Watertown where I've been held up if you will, since March, but I'll say behind me, you can see other, others won't on the podcast, but a picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg and in a place of honor behind me.
Carolyn:
On a historic day. The first woman to lay in state in the Capitol rotunda.
Jamie:
Very historic, very historic. She earned it, that is for sure. I thought I'd start. We'll get into more about your time at Holy Cross and what you've done since, but I want to hear a little bit about where you grew up and I know you grew up in Taunton. As you know, I grew up in Fall River-
Carolyn:
Yes.
Jamie:
...and I'm interested to see how did growing up in Taunton or how did Taunton influence who you are today?
Carolyn:
Appreciate that question. First of all, clear year from Fall River, because you say Taunton the way we say it in Taunton. And there's a very strong kinship between Fall River and Taunton and New Bedford. One of the things that links those communities is a heritage of the blue collar ethic, and a passion for family, and for faith and community. And so when I think about Taunton and 28 Briar Drive, where I grew up with my three siblings, all Holy Cross alum and my dad, Holy Cross alum, and my mom, not a Holy Cross alum, but she didn't have a choice.
Jamie:
By association.
Carolyn:
It was all men when she was growing up, so she went to the Newton College of the Sacred Heart, which is now part of BC. But Taunton was formative in many ways, and I think one of the first things I think about is my dad who was an educator, lifelong educator after graduating from Holy Cross. He was a coach and he was a teacher, and then he ultimately became a school superintendent.
Carolyn:
But for us, for the Casey kids, we were really fortunate that we grew up in an environment, our mom had been a teacher. And so education as a gateway to discovery, and to journey, and to wonder, and to edification of your values and how you make your way in this world, it's very much part of our ethos, but not... People used to think, because my dad was a superintendent that like he'd lord over us to do homework, or we had to get honor roll.
Carolyn:
It wasn't like that at all. It was very much just a culture of learning. So it felt very integrated into both our schoolwork, but also how our family lived our lives. We weren't tremendously financially blessed, so our outings were lots of times to things like Plymouth Rock and Battleship Cove, and the Museum of Fine Arts and things like that. And so just a rich and deep appreciation for how every opportunity and every individual is an opportunity for growth, and for education, and for deeply understanding the human condition.
Carolyn:
That was certainly formative. And then both of my parents, great faith. My mom is 83, still goes to mass every day and the church and our faith being very central to the values that defined us, but also the way in which we are responsible as human beings in this world, which is we are our brothers and sisters keeper. So both for Kizzy, Joe and Mike, my siblings, but also the broader community. That was most definitely a guiding principle.
Carolyn:
And then the final thing, and I feel like I'm saying three very typical things, which is like-
Jamie:
No, no.
Carolyn:
... education, and faith, and community, but in Taunton, I was... Happily will say I'm 54 years old and my Taunton girls are still core to my everyday life. Those friendships forged at E Pole Elementary School, or in the girl Scouts, or brownies are still defining for me. What my friends taught me and what Taunton as a community taught me was the importance of loyalty and the importance of devotion through times that are easy and difficult.
Carolyn:
Taunton as a city, I know you can relate Fall River, Taunton had glory days as a silver manufacturing and the last 50, 60, 70 years have been challenging years for Taunton.
Jamie:
Sure.
Carolyn:
But there's something about that, there's something about struggle and triumph, and struggle again, and then triumph again, and there's that resilience. And again, that sense that if we all pull together, we can achieve extraordinary things.
Jamie:
I think there's a certain work ethic and communities like Taunton and Fall River, New Bedford, that if you grew up in that environment, you're influenced by it. And I think no matter what you do, where you go, that has a special place in your heart, in your soul, if you will, to... It's also not more work ethic, but it's also to appreciate people who work hard, and work hard and to raise families on very little and are loyal to community, as you said.
Jamie:
You mentioned that you grew up in a Holy Cross family with your dad, obviously, and then the three brothers also went to Holy Cross. Did you have any choice in deciding what college to go to or was Holy Cross a given?
Carolyn:
I did actually, I was the controversial one. Because she would kill me if I let the record go on-
Jamie:
Kathleen too, your sister
Carolyn:
The oldest sister, yeah. Kathleen is class of '84, Joe, class of '85 and Mike, class '90. I just want to give a, a shout out to them, my best friends and heroes, and to all their classmates, which I think is one of the things about Holy Cross that we know so well is that the friendships that just go on, and on, and on. And so all of those classes, '84, '85 and '90, and of course my class, the great class of '87 are just filled with the most extraordinary people. So I send all of them love.
Carolyn:
But yes, so most definitely I did. I was the third, I was the second daughter. Kathleen was at Holy Cross premed, Joe was there as well together. And my father who had been visiting Holy Cross since the mid '40s as a student was sort of burning out on Holy Cross and was strongly encouraging me to go anywhere, but Holy Cross. And I don't know if that-
Jamie:
Why was that, if I may jump in?
Carolyn:
I don't know if he was thinking, and my mom, actually, my mom wanted me to go to an all-girls school and I got into Mount Holyoke and almost a full ride and for our family, that was a really big deal. Anyone who knows me that would not have been a successful endeavor. I don't know. I don't know if my father... Parents are wise and maybe he was thinking it was important for me to step out of my sibling shadow or... I'm not really sure what motivated it.
Carolyn:
But ultimately I ended up at Holy Cross and with his blessing and my mom's blessing, or the tuition check would not have been written. And then I was really lucky because I was the one Casey who went to school with all of my siblings. When I was a freshman, my sister was a senior, Joe as a junior. When I was a sophomore, Joe was a senior, when I was junior, I was there by myself. And then when I was a senior, Mike was a freshman.
Jamie:
Wow. What an amazing opportunity to be able to share that with your siblings?
Carolyn:
Yeah, it was very special and I feel really lucky because my dad's license plate is HC52. And when he passed away, that was the only thing I wanted. So now my car has HC52. And I love it because there are still HC52-ers who will come up to me. They're like, "Is that Bill Casey's car?" "Well, not his car, but his license plate." It just goes to show they're everywhere.
Jamie:
They're everywhere, we're everywhere, and that's a good thing. We like that as a kid. It's certainly a community. What was your first experiences Holy Cross like? Especially growing up, I would say is growing up as someone from Fall River, going to Durfee Public school, Holy Cross in some ways at the time was a foreign place to me, because there are a lot of people went to this academy and private schools, is what I'm trying to say.
Jamie:
And it was just a different culture for me. And did you have that, what I would argue is maybe a mild culture shock when you went to Holy Cross?
Carolyn:
The one thing I felt lucky about is I had... and I don't know if it's... Maybe comfort for me was wasn't an important part of going to Holy Cross, but my dad had been president of the alumni association and chairman of his class. So when we were growing up, we were up there like every weekend and we'd sometimes sit in Hogan and be bored and complain because we weren't with our friends in Taunton. But I had a really very strong sense of place there and a very... I knew where everything was.
Carolyn:
Not in a overly confident way that I was superior in any way, but I just knew my way around. And then of course, because my sister and brother went there, I started visiting my sister when she was a freshman. So I was like 15 and I was a sophomore and I would go up for weekends and stay with my sister. So I got a little bit of that experience too, like the classroom experience, going to Hogan, going to Kimball, going to keg parties in Hanselman...
Jamie:
... I'm not going to ask for the stories there. I'm sure there are some. That's for a different podcast.
Carolyn:
Exactly. Especially given my current constituents of eighth-graders that I will not tell those on the record, but. My earliest days of Holy Cross, they are... I'll say one thing about my earliest days is that they foretold my four years because I hit the jackpot with the friends that I met very early on. So down the hall from me were the two Leannes- Leanne Kearney and Leanne Martin.
Carolyn:
And I was just texting with my whole Holy Cross circle right before I got on this. They are still... Just like my Taunton friends, still in my life every day, and still my teachers and my cheerleaders, and I hope I'm the same for them. But for me it started first with those friendships and sort of the rituals that I think so many people know from Holy Cross, which are 10:00 PM mass on Sunday and meeting at the hand in front of the library before you go down to Kimball, and just rich conversations.
Carolyn:
It sounds idealic, and when I look back, it feels idealic because we were in a different space in time than young people going to college. Now we definitely thank goodness didn't have the social media, but there was a lot of... It was obviously prior to 2001 prior to the global challenges we're facing now. We definitely incubated in a way on Mount St. James. And that because we weren't venturing out, that just made the bonds of friendship even deeper and I think more transformative.
Carolyn:
Those are the things I remember, and I also remember, the intimidation for me was the classroom because I have to work hard on my academics. That's where I felt, as you were talking that sort of a little bit of, will I fit in, in the classroom? But I think you know, I was an English major and I felt like talk about an abundance of blessings of professors and classes and conversations.
Jamie:
Yeah, I think when you learn as much outside the classroom, as you do inside the classroom, I find that at Holy Cross. And I think that's something that's stayed consistent, which I think is a good thing across generations. Question for you, where did you live your freshman year?
Carolyn:
Freshman year I lived in Carlin.
Jamie:
Oh, Carlin. Wow. That was an upper class residence hall when I was there. They let the first years live there.
Carolyn:
They let all freshmen in and I lived over the bridge, so we had the window over the bridge. So when the classes changed, you got to see everybody. And then I went to Wheeler for two years and then Caro Street, my senior year much later.
Jamie:
What floor on Wheeler did you live on?
Carolyn:
Fifth floor. Oh goodness. My friends are going to be like, "She can't remember." I think it was second floor, sophomore year, fifth floor, junior, and then Caro street, which was a health department abomination. That house was like, we were all jammed in there and yeah. That's another thing that we'll just keep off the record.
Jamie:
That's another podcast, as I said.
Carolyn:
Those safety protocols were probably not adhered to.
Jamie:
I was a Wheeler three guy for two years, my freshman year, my sophomore year. And it was an experience living in Wheeler, that's for sure.
Carolyn:
Wheeler Beach.
Jamie:
But I loved it.
Carolyn:
Right?
Jamie:
Wheeler Beach. Wheeler Beach. And-
Carolyn:
Those were the days.
Jamie:
I still am, as you've mentioned, it's amazing how those bonds can last throughout the years, the bonds you make. And blow do you know when you first drive up to up the up Mount St. James, how it's going to change your life, but-
Carolyn:
And that's one of the things I remember meeting you the first time I met you. All you have to hear is Holy Cross and I'm like, "I know I'm going to love him." It just comes with that built-in comfort level and excitement.
Jamie:
Exactly right. Obviously, beyond the classroom, what type of extra extracurricular activities were you involved in when you were at Holy Cross?
Carolyn:
I wish I could say a ton, but... Because of my focus on academics, that took a lot of my time, but I was work study and I also did student government. And I worked at the library, which I loved. For me, I worked in the... Oh, I can't remember the name of the room, but it's where you had a sign out so that-
Jamie:
Oh sure.
Carolyn:
I can't remember what they called it.
Jamie:
The reserve room, but I don't that-
Carolyn:
The reserve room, that's right. That was where I was, so that's where I spent a lot of my time, was in the reserve room. And I love that because you got to see everybody, so it was social, and I also got to do homework. But our crew, we were very enthusiastic sports fans. We loved all the sports. A lot of our friends played football, hockey, basketball, baseball. That was a big part of our time.
Carolyn:
So road trips , stole my father's car once. That was a mistake. I went to William and Mary, and then of course somebody is like, "Hey, I saw your car in Virginia." So I was given up, that wasn't... I got to remember HC52.
Jamie:
That HC52 license plate does not come in handy.
Carolyn:
Yes, that's when it doesn't... "darn It, I thought I'd get away with that," but no, I didn't. I also did internships, which I always, when I talk to prospective students and I think everybody knows this now, it's again, not novel advice, but that was enormously helpful for me. I was an English major and when I was at Holy Cross, I wanted to go into sports marketing, and so I did marketing internships, and those were extraordinarily helpful for me.
Carolyn:
I didn't end up going into marketing, but those skills helped me in my current job
Jamie:
Where did you intern? Do you-
Carolyn:
I interned at a hospital, St. Elizabeth.
Jamie:
St. Elizabeth?
Carolyn:
Is that right?
Jamie:
Yeah, it's there. Yeah, it's still there. That's good. That's good.
Carolyn:
Was great. They were very kind to me.
Jamie:
What was your favorite class at Holy Cross?
Carolyn:
Oh, goodness-
Jamie:
If you can pick one, it's a hard question. It's like saying, who's your favorite sibling? I don't want you to answer that question, but-
Carolyn:
I know, all of them. One of the things that I'm known for is my terrible memory, but I know the class, I'm not going to remember the professor. But the class was a seminar on Martin Luther King and it was incredible. It was maybe 15 people in the class and it was probably my best class for sure.
Jamie:
What made it incredible?
Carolyn:
Well, I love the size of it and it was the students. No disrespect to the professor. Obviously I can't remember his name, which is terrible, but the students in the class, it was... I was an English major, so it was a bunch of students I didn't know and they were from different grade levels as well. For me, the diversity of opinion in that class was very rich because there wasn't a tremendous... when I was at Holy Cross, it wasn't tremendously diverse.
Carolyn:
That was a class where there was a lot of diversity in many ways, and including racial and ideological, and lived experiences. And so for me, it was more of an awakening as opposed to other classes. And I loved all of my English classes because I love literature, I love to write, but just in terms of getting me to think in new ways, that class was formative. And Dr. King is such an abiding figure in my life in terms of his philosophy and his teachings, and it really started there at Holy Cross in that class.
Jamie:
That's powerful. That's a great. I want to fast forward a little bit now and start talking about your post Holy Cross life, if you will.
Carolyn:
Sure.
Jamie:
Obviously we want to talk a lot about Project 351, which you're the founder and executive director of. But give us a little snapshot of what your first few years were after Holy Cross. I know you had some interesting jobs pre Project 351, so tell us a little bit about them.
Carolyn:
My first job right out of Holy Cross was I was a hostess at a restaurant because I couldn't make the cut as a waitress, so that goes to show. But I was-
Jamie:
Because your warm, charming personality, they wanted you to do the hostess.
Carolyn:
Yes. Well, they gave me one shot as a waitress and I dropped a tray of drinks on a bald man's head and I was, I was redistributed back to the hostess stand.
Jamie:
At least you don't have to wipe off his hair-
Carolyn:
No...
Jamie:
... just wipe his head off, it's easy.
Carolyn:
Of course I started crying right away. But I was liberated by another Holy Cross grad. My cousin Maura Donlan from West Roxbury, also class of '87 who is like my sister. We're the same age, and she was working for Governor Dukakis, his presidential campaign in New Hampshire in the field. I went up for a weekend of canvassing and I'd never really done anything quite like that. It was one of these, they had me at hello. It was completely transformative.
Carolyn:
And I came home and my parents for some reason were in Europe or something, which would be rare. And I told them I wanted to quit my very important hostess job and move to New Hampshire and worked for Mike Dukakis. And thankfully they said, yes. That was the beginning of the path of service that I've been on ever since around public service and around mission-based organizations or campaigns.
Carolyn:
But I was really fortunate, I worked up in New Hampshire, and I was like 22 or whatever and I was the deputy to the state director, Charlie Baker. Not governor Baker, but the other Charlie Baker.
Jamie:
No, very well. Dewey Square Group Charlie Baker, yeah.
Carolyn:
Dewey Square Group. And his dad, Charlie Baker was a professor at Holy Cross.
Jamie:
Exactly right. French professor, I think.
Carolyn:
Yeah. French in like movies. Did he do something on movies too?
Jamie:
Yeah. No, Charlie is a wonderful person.
Carolyn:
Yes. You know how lucky I was to work for him and John Geezer, who you probably know well.
Jamie:
Sure.
Carolyn:
And so I got to work for Charlie all the way through the general election, and that was just in his philosophy was, everywhere I go, you go. And so I'd be in the room with Jesse Jackson and the negotiations. And I was for the nomination, and down in Atlanta, and I just did my best to soak it all up, and to be as... I remember thinking that then, as I was in the job was around trying to... I wasn't a political animal, so I didn't really have great scale on the politics side.
Carolyn:
And so my focus was on being kind and responsive. I just wanted to, how can I help as many people and try to prove myself that way, because I wasn't going to be the policy work. And from that ended up... Of course governor lost and I went to... So I moved to D.C. and I worked for the democratic Senate campaign committee, and that's a whole bunch of wild and crazy stories about... Not wild and crazy, but in that I can't believe that I had this job at age 23 where I was doing at the time, it was their major funding program.
Carolyn:
So I set up weekends that donors would go to with like eight or nine senators and their spouses. And then it would be me on the plane with like George Mitchell and-
Jamie:
Wow.
Carolyn:
Wyche Fowler, and John Kerry and they listen to me. I was giving them a brief and the this and the that, and we would do a weekend of like policy retreats. That was incredibly inspirational, informative and real insight on how relational politics works.
Jamie:
And I would take away two things just to jump in here for a second. One, this path that you were sent on, that you started down, began through your relationship with Maura Donlan, your cousin, but also a fellow Holy Cross Crusader. And so it's again the power of the Holy Cross network to open up opportunities for the students or recent grads. But I would say something, I just want you to comment on one thing too, is you said something that caught my attention that... You said you don't have the political skills necessarily that are... you don't have the political experience, but you said you wanted to focus on being kind and responsive.
Jamie:
And I would argue with you and say that those are extremely important political skills, especially in our day and age. I think being kind and responsive to people's needs are two skills that a lot of people in politics lack today. Not to go off in a different direction with this discussion, but I would just say that I think you're a perfectly suited for politics because of those two skills of being both kind and responsive to people. And so I just wanted to make that point.
Carolyn:
Right back at you because you're a model of that. When I think about Holy Cross throughout my life and my professional and personal life, one of the things about if it's... there's sort of a built-in confidence if it's a Holy Cross person asking you to do something, inviting you just have a... For me, I'm more likely to take that leap of faith because it's somebody who I... There's that bond, and that trust, and that sense of shared values.
Jamie:
Sure. I just want to talk briefly before we get to the important work that you're doing at Project 351, and I want to hear all about it obviously. You worked in Timberland for a little while and did social responsibility?
Carolyn:
Corporate social responsibility, yeah.
Jamie:
How was that? How was working in the private sector?
Carolyn:
It was incredible. One thing I'd say, that there's sort of one theme from my career path would be that I was really very lucky in that I worked for a lot of visionaries, and so people who were very bold about the kind of either organization or world that they wanted to build, and would be sort of relentless in pursuit. And not relentless in like a criminal way or mean way, but in terms of relentless about galvanizing the resources to enable that vision.
Carolyn:
After I left D.C., I worked at city year for eight years, and the co-founders Michael Brown and Alan Khazei who had this bold vision of building a national service movement and started with 50 young people in Boston. And today, millions of young people have served through AmeriCorps, which-
Jamie:
Amazing.
Carolyn:
... City Year the model for. And through city Year, while I was at City Year. And I was there in the early days, so people who do nonprofit work who might be listening to this know that in the nonprofit sector, you often have like 12 jobs and a lot of them don't relate. And so I was... President Clinton was the president at the time and I was responsible for media, our national convention fundraising, the Clinton relationship and managing the Timberland partnership and new site development. It was like this crazy mosaic of things.
Carolyn:
And from the relationship managing the partnership with Timberland, Jeff Swartz was the CEO of Timberland, invited me to come to work for him and to help direct corporate social responsibility. Jeff is a person that I always I wanted him to speak at Holy Cross, because his leadership is driven by faith, his deep faith as a Jewish person. And he grew over the time that I worked for him a comfort level and talking about that in the business space, which was fairly rare at the time.
Carolyn:
But he was also incredibly visionary, and bold and courageous around pushing the edge of the envelope around the role and the responsibility of the private sector as a catalyst for social justice. This is like 25 years ago and there... I still see things now from companies and they regard them as breakthroughs, I'm like, "Jeff was..." I don't mean this in a dismissive way at all-
Jamie:
No, no.
Carolyn:
... but Jeff was doing this like 30 years ago. If you worked at Timberland, you had 40 hours of paid time for volunteerism, a full week to donate to community. And the entire business model and operating systems were built around the notion that commerce and justice are inextricably linked. And so when we're thinking about manufacturing our boots, where we're manufacturing them? How are we giving back to those workers in that community? What materials are we using to make sure we're not despoiling the planet?
Carolyn:
How can those boots be a lever for change through a consumer point of sale that invites them to come serve with us?
Jamie:
Wow.
Carolyn:
So it was this very creative time to be able to work for somebody like that, who, when you would have like crazy ideas, he wouldn't say they were crazy. He'd say, "Yeah. Let's try it."
Jamie:
That's a sign of a good leader.
Carolyn:
Yes. My time there, many, many, many gifts, including my relationship with Jeff, who is a teacher and a mentor and like a brother to me. But the other thing that came out of my time there was a friendship with Congressman John Lewis, which transformative. I love how Jon Meacham talks about John Lewis as a saint, as an American saint. I'd never heard of him referred to him that way, but Jon Meacham puts him within the context of faith, and holiness, and-
Jamie:
The beloved community.
Carolyn:
And the beloved community. And that John Lewis' ability to endure what he endured throughout his life, including 45 arrests, and a fractured skull, and multiple beatings, and humiliations that no human should ever have to endure was a deep faith in God.
Jamie:
And after all that, still having a faith in people too. After all those experiences that he suffered through, to still have faith and hope in the human spirit, it was remarkable. Have you read Jon Meacham's new book about-
Carolyn:
I'm reading it right now.
Jamie:
I finished it last week. What a powerful... I was in tears. At some part of the book, I was laughing, at other parts and I just think it's such a powerful life. I had the opportunity to meet him once, John Lewis, once when I was waiting for an elevator on Capitol Hill and the elevator was for members of Congress only. But he said, "Oh, come on, ride with me. You can ride with me." He asked me where I was from, who I worked for, Jim McGovern at the time. And he was just the nicest man. The only thing is he got off the elevator before I did.
Carolyn:
Oh no.
Jamie:
I still had two floors to go and other members of Congress got on and they were looking at me like-
Carolyn:
They were like, "Who's this guy?"
Jamie:
... why are you on our elevator? I said, John Lewis let us to be on. John Lewis let me on, and they believed it. They didn't second guess me, because I guess it was a typical practice of John Lewis to invite people on the members-only elevator.
Carolyn:
Yeah. He was pied-piper for sure. But learned so much from him and just... Such perspective that any sort of hardship or challenge that I would ever face either personally or professionally, whatever, I would always draw on his, keep the faith, keep moving. I remember one time I was going through really hard time personally and I was talking to him and he said to me... I said, "What do you do when you feel like there's hate coming at you?" And he said, "You go at hate with love, and then more love, and then more love, and then more love."
Carolyn:
And I was like, "Okay, I got it."
Jamie:
Yeah. And those were certainly not just words to him. That's the way lived-
Carolyn:
No.
Jamie:
... words in action, so to speak. Well, it's remarkable that you got to know him. We'll have to talk more about that at some point, because I think he's one of my heroes, and I think he should be one of everyone's heroes because of the life he led. But I want to move on here too and-
Carolyn:
Sure.
Jamie:
... I have a question about your gap year.
Carolyn:
Yes, the gap year.
Jamie:
Gap year, it wasn't a... People think of gap years typically is years right after high school, between high school and college or maybe the year after college. But your gap year was a few years after, after having some work experience. Right? So tell us a little bit what you did. I think some of the stories are remarkable from what I've heard already, but why you took the gap year.
Carolyn:
It was after my Timberland tenure and I decided to drive across the country from California to Savannah, Georgia and do service in civil rights history. My motivation for doing it was, I'd been on this durable wheel, whatever that is, hamster wheel, for about two decades and working. Working for Jeff was amazing, but it was 24/7 and then City Year was the same way because we were trying to build City Year, the institution, and it was just sort of non-stop.
Carolyn:
And, and then I know you know my sister-in-law who's class of '90 was killed- Neilie Casey, who's another love and incredibly important person in my life. She was killed on September 11th, and that experience, and that tragedy, and the emotion. And so I was really burnt, I was really fried. And I had been doing commerce and justice and service with Timberland and at a global level, and so traveling to South Africa, and Prague, and Italy and all across the United States with John Lewis doing service, and it was amazing.
Carolyn:
But I wanted to get back to the essence of service, so without the corporate funding behind me, which was great to have a budget actually going into community and really do one-on-one with people who were on the frontline of some of our country's most critical issues. And so these are all people who no one would know their name. They were running a domestic violence shelter in Birmingham, Alabama, or working on native American health in Chinle, Arizona.
Carolyn:
I did four days with a bunch of Vietnam vets, building a home after Katrina, it was still in the aftermath of Katrina in Mississippi. Serving the City Year core members in LA, which was incredible, but also very depressing because these children had nowhere near the educational resources that they needed to learn and to succeed. And this was pre smartphone. I think we had cell phones or blackberries or something.
Jamie:
Flip phones.
Carolyn:
Yeah. And so I was able to... It was quiet and there was only one time where my sister, thank goodness came out early on in my journey because she's a surgeon and extraordinary. She came with me to Chinle, Arizona because we... My service partner there was the John Hopkins Center for Native American Health. And she was very interested in it from her perspective and she knew that I needed her.
Carolyn:
So she came out and we did that and we did the Grand Canyon. So, that was also a bonus. But that trip, it was incredible on so many levels. The opportunity to serve and be humbled by the example of people who are truly, people talk about this all the time, like unsung heroes and this. These are the truest unsung heroes who are working day in and out to feed families or provide compassion for seniors or protect women from domestic violence and to bear witness.
Carolyn:
Billy Shore, who's one of my heroes and mentors who's the founder of Share Our Strength. Billy always talks about the importance of bearing witness, and to bear witness and to listen and learn and to just be quiet. To be in a space of reflection. And then I get in my car and then I would drive like 10 hours or whatever. Going through Western Texas was scary because I lost my cell and you had like for eight hours, no gas station.
Carolyn:
They're like, "Fill up here or you're not going to make it." And so you just have that quiet to sit and reflect. That's where the spark for Project 351 started to come, but it was... And not to sound overly hokey or, I don't know, silly in any way, sentimental in any way. But just for me was just this deep sense of gratitude for this country and just how diverse... Now even more, now it's polarized.
Carolyn:
Then it was diverse and not so polarized. Now it's diverse and so polarized. But I remember every interaction was a lesson in humility and a lesson in grace, and that these people from every background you could imagine who were doing things driven only by devotion to cause greater than self, and that the character of the American people. And I remember just... Certainly, our family was very blessed and changed by the extraordinary, and Holy Cross being one of the most extraordinary sources of love and comfort and care after 9/11.
Carolyn:
And how important it is to access that through memory when we are in times like this, that feels so divisive, that what this country stands for is not what we're witnessing on the television.
Jamie:
There are people out there doing God's work, if you will, and doing it quietly, but doing it so well and making a difference in people's lives. One life at a time. But you multiply that in the aggregate and there are a lot of lives being touched out there by a lot of people. And so including you, I would argue, I would say, without a doubt-
Carolyn:
With your help, Jamie. With your help.
Jamie:
Well, let's transition I know to Project 351, because obviously, that is close to my heart. Obviously, a part of your heart, this is your heart. Tell us a little bit about Project 351. And I want to hear its origin story, if you will, as they say in superhero movies these days. The origin story of Project 351.
Carolyn:
I want to make sure, because I'll forget is to say upfront one, how grateful I am to Holy Cross the institution, the civic space because of you, Jamie and Elizabeth Rice and so many wonderful people at Holy Cross. Holy Cross is a little bit of Project 351 West because we have our educator advisory group meetings there, we have alumni summits there and I love it. I love every time I can bring my alum on campus and tell them that they all should go to Holy Cross.
Carolyn:
But I always tell them, "We are very intentional about everything we do at Project 351." So we convene in places of meaning, and that Holy Cross is devoted to developing men and women for others. And so that's why we meet there. Because we can meet anywhere in Worcester, but we meet there because of that ethos.
Jamie:
It's our honor to have you there for sure.
Carolyn:
Then the broader gratitude to all of the Holy Cross alums specifically and the class of 1987, my best friends, Jen White, and Julie Foley, and so many friends who have... Frannie and Danny and everybody who have believed in Project 351 and encouraged, and have volunteered. I just feel really lucky shout out also to Ellie and Michael Hall, our other family members,
Jamie:
The San Francisco wing of Project-
Carolyn:
Yes, of Holy Cross. Exactly. The origin story is, it's one of these things where the path is so unclear what the origin story is, it's sort of one. But the way I always think of it is that, and I think most people probably would have a similar is that, Project 351 is a mosaic and every one of those beautiful cuts of glass is a gift that someone has given me along the way. Whether it's John Lewis whose passion for the beloved community and insistence on leading with love.
Carolyn:
If Jeff Swartz who's courage and bold vision around creating cross sector collaboration and social change. Michael and Alan and my partner at Project 351, and my third brother, Charlie Rose, from City Year whose fierce belief in young people as a catalyst for transformative change. And then there's a million pieces of glass that I picked up all over Mount St. James. So those are the lessons of faith, and those are the lessons of partnership, and respect, and inquiry and reflection.
Carolyn:
The philosophy around Project 351 comes from all of those lessons, but the reality of Project 351 comes from, it was the first Baker Patrick contest. Right? I think, the first one?
Jamie:
Yeah, 2010.
Carolyn:
2010, yes. And there were two other candidates, right? Jill, Stein?
Jamie:
Jill Stein, yeah, yeah.
Carolyn:
And I'm forgetting the independent. So there were four candidates running in a state small like Massachusetts and governor Patrick and Charlie Baker, and Charlie Baker, I'd known, he was a friend of mine for, at that point like, I don't know, 15 years. And that campaign was, you'll recall because you were probably in the middle of it. It was an unkind campaign, shall we say?
Carolyn:
And I remember thinking as someone who just loves Massachusetts and loves the quaintness of it that we're so small and thinking, wow, this division, first of all, we have four candidates, and then it's a race that's divisive. It's kind of mean, which felt not that things are like hunky dory in Massachusetts politics, but it felt a little bit out of kilter. And I remember thinking like, well, how do you bring the state together again after a time like this? I'm thinking, well, through service and through young people.
Carolyn:
We're small enough to do it. You're not an eighth-grader from each one of the 351 cities and towns, but we're big enough where it feels bold. Where it's like, how the heck are you going to get one eighth-grader from every city and town? That prompted me. It was really around, how can service be a unifier and remind us that we have more in common than what makes us different? Governor Patrick would always talk about turning towards one another, not against one another.
Carolyn:
And and I didn't know him. I'm a Democrat, but I had never engaged with him. I supported him, but I didn't know him. And a mutual friend of ours, David O'Brien-
Jamie:
Exactly. There you go.
Carolyn:
... was the head of his campaign inaugural and reached out to me. And he said, "You're like my service community person and the governor wants to focus on service and community. Any thoughts?" And I was like, "Well, actually, yeah. I have this concept paper called Project 351." And I sent it over and they presented it with options to the governor and the governor said, "I want to do this." It's not that exciting, but that's-
Jamie:
Wow. No, it's powerful.
Carolyn:
That's how it happened. But it was conceived as a one-day event. This happened very quickly. It was end of November, the inaugural was middle of January and I started calling superintendents in the first week of December saying, "How you don't know me, but we would like an eighth-grade unsung hero from your school district." And they're like, "We're about to go on Christmas break and you can call us back in January."
Carolyn:
And as it is in all things, there's always one person. And so Tom Scott who's executive director of the Massachusetts Association of School Superintendents said yes, I was calling the first yes. And because of Tom and a lot of amazing people, we were able to assemble, you were probably there, a class of celebratory event called Project 351 that was really, and nothing to do with me, everything to do with Governor Patrick and the young people.
Carolyn:
But it was a celebration of Dr. King and it was these young people, literally from 351 cities and towns, including Nantucket, and Martha's Vineyard, and Provincetown, and North Adams. Those young people getting up at 4:00 in the morning to get on a bus to get... And it's so amazing because the bus, not only the bus routes, but the bus captains from that first go are still the same today.
Jamie:
They're still involved today. Wow.
Carolyn:
Yep.
Jamie:
That speaks to the organization.
Carolyn:
And it speaks to how amazing educators are too. Right?
Jamie:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Carolyn:
But we figured out then how the heck to get young people in and out safely and programmatically, in and out in one day. And then the day itself was highly programmatic, celebration of Dr. King, transformational service across Boston, reflection and celebration at the end of the day. And the cool thing about Project 351 that you know and that everyone who's listening is welcome to come is, in the morning, you can't hear a sound, they're petrified.
Carolyn:
They're eighth grade, 12 years old or 13 years old. They're the only person from their town. They were selected, you don't apply, and so you are a quiet leader, so by nature, you're quiet. And they come into Faneuil Hall in the morning and you could hear a pin drop until Charlie gets them going on the building. And at the end of the day, they have found their voice, they have found their tribe.
Carolyn:
Some of them have found the love of their life, they think and their best friends. And the noise at the end of the day is like the symphony of service and idealism and it's at like fever pitch. It's so-
Jamie:
That is so true. That is so true. I've noticed that before. It's more than just the fact that they're early in the morning. I think the nerves are real in the morning, but they've become such a community by the course of the day that it is just wonderful to see. And they see their personalities come out, their spirits come out, and it's just really heartwarming to see.
Carolyn:
And to make sure for all the listeners, the kind listeners if you're still listening is, the very important role that Jamie has played as champion, and advisor, and friend. And also is the chairperson of the selection committee, our most highest award at Project 351, which is a $20,000 scholarship named after Myra Kraft, who those at Holy Cross know there's a deep relationship between Myra Hiatt Kraft's family, and Holy Cross. Right?
Jamie:
Absolutely.
Carolyn:
So all roads lead to Holy Cross.
Jamie:
Yeah. The wings of the library are the Hiatt wings-
Carolyn:
The Hiatt wings.
Jamie:
... named after her family. So you have this launch day then you also have a reunion day. So tell us about reunion day.
Carolyn:
Well, the one thing I'll tell you about the first original launch day is that at the end of the day... How do we go from a one-day event to a program? At the end of the day, the young people were standing up, and a lot of them were crying. It was very, very emotional. A lot of the educators were crying and the young people kept standing up. And the governor who you know better than me is magical with young people.
Carolyn:
So he was in this community discussion and a beautiful discussion. And they would stand up and say, "No one's ever called me a leader before," and all these things. But a number of them set up and they said, "Okay, so now what? You called me to serve, and now what?" The governor was on a microphone and I was way in the back of the room. He's like, "Where's Carolyn?" On microphone. I'm like, "I'm here."
Carolyn:
And he said, "This keeps going, right?" And I was like, "I don't know." I'm like, "Yeah, I guess." Then that night, we created a Facebook page and that's how we started. Every bit of advice I ever gave to her nonprofit when I was at Timberland like do a market scan, build a board, raise the money, do a strategy, blah, blah, blah. No.
Jamie:
No?
Carolyn:
All of that went right out the door. I was building programs under me. And sometimes I feel like we never caught up, but from that moment. But so fast forward now, we're 10 years old, a decade. And now we are a youth-led movement for social change. There are 3,753 eighth-graders have embraced the obligation to serve through Project 351. And it's awe call it the ambassador journey, so it's a 12-month ambassador journey.
Carolyn:
And they're still selected, can't apply. Still unsung hero, quiet leader. And it is a year of developing their courage, and their compassion, and their capabilities to lead change. And we do that in very intentional ways through milestones throughout the year that are both enrichment-based, and also hands-on civic leadership and service leadership. I can talk about those, but I don't want to go on too long.
Jamie:
I think, I'm curious to hear from you what your thoughts are and what inspires these young leaders? What inspires them to serve at such a young age especially?
Carolyn:
One of my probably overused words when it comes to Project 351, there are two probably remarkable and extraordinary, because I run out of words for our young people and they are both... they're remarkable and extraordinary. And I think anybody listening who has children, nieces, nephews know that young people have innate goodness and hopefully for as long as possible, no judgment. And so bias or prejudice, we all know that that's taught, right? And so-
Jamie:
Yeah absolutely.
Carolyn:
And they are unfortunately increasingly sophisticated because of the world that we live in, but there's also when we were intentional about picking eighth-graders, because again, wanted them to be sort of young enough to feel as if this was an honor, that spending time with the governor. Now it's not Governor Patrick, it's Governor Baker. That felt like a big deal, not a cynical response to that, but that they're old enough as eighth-graders to be able to grow into the role of change agent and to understand nuances around the issues of hunger and the intersectionality between race and homelessness.
Carolyn:
What motivates them is probably motivates you and me, Jamie, is that injustice, and lack of opportunity, and a planet that's burning, and the gap in educational opportunities. Our young people are so motivated by the challenges of other young people. That is causes deep pain for them, in their reflections when they write, when they learn about... One of our partners is the only youth-led youth homeless shelter in the state, why to, Y2Y, you might know them.
Jamie:
Yeah, I do.
Carolyn:
And just that reality that there's a youth homeless shelter for our young people, they have to reflect and process that. But the other thing that's really important is, it's one person from every city and town, and so you know Fall River and I know Taunton, right?
Jamie:
Yeah.
Carolyn:
We know Brockton, you think about these rural communities. We are blessed in the state where we have communities of extraordinary wealth and we have communities of extraordinary poverty. And so our young people are from those communities, so we've young people who have parents who have extraordinary wealth and young people who... We've had young people who are homeless.
Carolyn:
We have one young woman who stood up at the end of last year's launch day and said, crying because she said, "I've never been..." How the day made her feel so special and that she and her mom had slept in a car the night before because they had no place to go. Right now we're preparing, potentially with the help of Jim McGovern to kick off our efforts on hunger for our next service campaign. So many of our young people are going to be serving food pantries that serve their family.
Carolyn:
I remember distinctly, one of my young women writing in her reflections after service about, it was one of her proudest moments. She brought her grandmother shopping. She put in air quotes at the food pantry, and he said, "And my grandmother was taking cans off the shelf that I had placed the day before-
Jamie:
Wow.
Carolyn:
... from the donations I had collected." And she said, "And it made me so proud that-
Jamie:
Wow.
Carolyn:
... I was helping my grandma, but I was also helping all these other families."
Jamie:
Wow, how powerful? For eighth-graders. It's amazing.
Carolyn:
It is amazing. And then the other is that on the other end of the spectrum, you have these young people who know that they're from families of good fortune, but have such sensitivity and then struggle. Every year on launch day, you may recall this, that we always have a couple of young people who stand up and have a tremendous sense of guilt-
Jamie:
Yes.
Carolyn:
... because their family has resources. Governor Patrick would always say... and he was always so compassionate and he would always go right over to the young person and put his hand on their shoulder and say, "I hear you. I hear you and I understand what you're saying, but it's a good thing that you're blessed. It's a good thing that you're blessed. But your reaction shouldn't be guilt, your reaction should be generosity, engagement, compassion. And that's what you're doing right now."
Carolyn:
He had four classes of ambassadors every year, it was an experience at that because there was always one young person who would say, "I was at Cradles to Crayons, we ran out of socks and this morning going from my bed to the shower, I stepped over like 100 pairs of socks and I feel so guilty that I don't respect my socks." So it's that awakening and empowering across all demographics and backgrounds and life experiences. That's what Dr. King tells us, right? Everybody can be great. Right?
Jamie:
Exactly right. Everyone can learn from each other, learn from each other lived experiences and share your lived experiences with one another. That's one of the many powerful things about Project 351, and that exposure that these young men and women get. One question I would have, I always might have ask you this. These students, the young men and women, these young leaders are facing a lot of challenges in their lives.
Jamie:
Whether it be hunger or whether it be what's going on in the world, how have those changed over the past 10 years since the Project 351 was first founded? Have their lives gotten more complicated or have things stayed the same? I'm just curious about their lived experience, because you're keeping up with the world through their eyes, and you're helping them deal with the, not the outside world, it's the real world, I don't know how to describe it, but. And how has that affected Project 351 and these young, remarkable men and women?
Carolyn:
There has been a stark change in the last four years of what our young people are dealing with, and right now is very intense. Mental health challenges for young people, especially at this age group, so middle school are spiking. They're spiking and then COVID has made it worse. Social isolation, the fact that they aren't able to be with their friends and socialize. But we have had in the last, really the last three years, a lot of very deep and painful conversations around identity.
Carolyn:
Either because of their race, or gender, or gender identity, or who they love, and those young people feeling under attack and how that affects them and their self-confidence and self self-worth. The last probably six months have been... I will say there is a difference between our ambassadors in eighth grade and then our alumni leadership council, which you know is our governance body and they are the mentors to the eighth-graders.
Carolyn:
We put our eighth-graders for 12 months, they're 45 teams, geographically diverse to build those relationships that we talked about across all metrics of demographics. And those are named after service heroes, so John Lewis, Malala, Mandela, we have a Governor Patrick team, a Governor... Team, Devin McCourty team. So people who we consider service heroes and those are led by a high school alum, who's trained to be a mentor and team leader for 12 months.
Carolyn:
Our high school and college alumni are very... there's activism and it's across the political spectrum and across the causes right now that are very dominant, Black Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter, so within our community. Of course, it's a microcosm of the world and a microcosm of Massachusetts. We have those perspectives and work to... What we are trying to do is trying to model and teach how to respect... how to have empathy, first of all, and respect for the dignity of all.
Carolyn:
And how to be an active and engaged listener where you may not leave a conversation condensed, but that you have been respectful and maybe you've learned something. It might not be enough to convince you in another direction, but the idea... So we're doing work on that now, how can we be more directive and deliberative around teaching collaborative leadership models and skill around communication.
Carolyn:
So civic dialogue, how do you do that in an authentic way, but in a way that respects the opinions of all?
Jamie:
That's so important. And you've mentioned this word a couple of times, empathy, teaching them empathy. To put themselves into other people's shoes and understand that we all come to the table with our own backgrounds, and our own perspectives, and how to listen and learn. Doesn't mean sacrificing and giving up what you believe in, but it actually, I think you grow in your own understanding of your own beliefs by listening to others and learning from others.
Carolyn:
Absolutely.
Jamie:
And I think that's a powerful thing. And Project 351 represents that because it was started by a Democratic governor and now very much supported by the current governor, Charlie Baker, who's a big supporter-
Carolyn:
Huge.
Jamie:
... and he's always at launch day.
Carolyn:
Lauren.
Jamie:
And first lady Lauren is a force. It's one example how they can... I know you've made that point before that it's a bipartisan organization in that way that it started by Democrat and has continued and supported by a Republican. I think-
Carolyn:
I think ... sorry.
Jamie:
No, no. Go ahead.
Carolyn:
No, I was going to say, I think one of the things that feels just more and more important to starting Project 351, part of it is, it's marveled at the fact that if you just deeply believe in young people and are consistent in that messaging, where it's like I always tell... We have a very small team, but I always tell our team, I'm like, "I want Project 351 to be the source of affirmation only, like we believe you can do it," and constant, every day.
Carolyn:
And because then they believe it and they do, but you need to... One, you need the affirmation, two, they need the platform, then they need the tools, and then they need the microphone. Right?
Jamie:
Yeah.
Carolyn:
So their voice. That combination is also important right now, which is to say, because one of the things I fear is this just escalating violence as we get closer to the election, it terrifies me. I'm 54 years old, so I being the young person at this time, how terrified they must be or scared maybe. So how do we model and teach, create that form, create that affirmation, give them the tools and the platform, hand them the microphone, but in a way that is about, like you said, empathy, that is about inclusion. That's about deescalation around these issues that are polarizing, so that they can...
Carolyn:
And that's one of the things, I just did the end of week email to them. And I was closing it by saying that these are challenging times, but we have the opportunity to demonstrate when we serve and when we lead with compassion, that love wins and that you can unite through empathy and compassion. And how proud I am of them for continuing to do that work during these challenging times. And that adults are paying attention to them, those eighth-graders and those high school students.
Jamie:
That's right. Well, I have to say, one thing that being involved in this organization has given me is hope. Hope in the future, not only because of the young leaders and obviously definitely because of them, but also because of you and because of the people who are involved in the Project 351 family. People who show up just to volunteer for one of the events or serve as a bus captains who are just there. The adults in the room, so to speak, who are inspired and are inspiring is what I would say.
Jamie:
I think they also serve as an example, and in this day and age, I think we all could use a little hope. So thank you, Carolyn, appreciate it very much. Tell people how they can learn more about Project 351.
Carolyn:
Sure. You're the best. Before I do that, I want to just make sure one group that I didn't recognize, which is so important, because it's full circle coming back to my dad and mom is Project 351 would be impossible without our educators.
Jamie:
Yes.
Carolyn:
And I know that so many graduates of Holy Cross are either teachers or in the education field. Little shout out to my friend, Danielle who's an educator and others out there who are educators, and especially now with COVID what those professionals have been managing and experiencing and doing what they can to ensure that children are educated during this time remote or otherwise.
Carolyn:
I would be remiss if I didn't, because ours is a school-based model, partnering with schools to build social and emotional learning skills. And we're very outcomes-based, which is a little more wonky to get into, but an important part of what we're trying to do is trying to be a solution provider for school districts who are looking to build character, education, civic, engagement, social, and emotional learning and to build unity around diverse communities.
Carolyn:
And so I just want to make sure I appreciate all the educators and certainly my parents who were educators and extraordinary teachers and my siblings who aren't educators, but teach me every day still.
Jamie:
Thank you.
Carolyn:
Oh, how can they find out. You can come visit Project 351. We are www.project351.org and we welcome... Obviously with COVID, we're doing everything virtual, we're sort of... but one thing in terms of hope, you would think that the environment our young people are in and COVID, social distancing, and our engagement, our service impact has gone up.
Jamie:
Really?
Carolyn:
We're doing 9/11 tribute service which honors and remembers through service our largest in history. Our spring service with like 514 projects. Young people are looking to make a difference, they're looking for meaning, they're looking for connection. They want to be part of building the beloved community and creating opportunity for their neighbors. And if you want to be a part, we're a .org. Normally we have volunteer opportunities on launch day and reunion, and hopefully we'll get back to that in 2021.
Carolyn:
We're always grateful if anybody wants to support us financially because we're a small organization, but we leverage every dollar because we have this extraordinary volunteer army across the state. And so, grateful for the time, grateful to Maura for inviting me to be part of this, and to you, Jamie who's somebody that we hold up at Project 351 as leader, and friend, and role model and you made this so easy. I was so nervous and...
Jamie:
I really appreciate all you do, and I appreciate who you are, and I appreciate all your contributions. It really is comforting to know that there are people like you out there and there's a future generation who we're putting a lot on their shoulders to be sure, but I think they can carry it. I think they can carry it. And it gives me comfort to hear that, but thank you. This has been a lovely conversation.
Carolyn:
Thank you, and thank you to... If anyone listening, we just say thank you for sharing time with Jamie and me.
Jamie:
Thank you.
Maura:
That's our show. I hope you enjoyed hearing about just one of the many ways that Holy Cross alumni have been inspired by the mission to be people for and with others.
A special thanks to today's guests and everyone at Holy Cross who has contributed to making this podcast a reality. If you or someone you know would like to be featured on this podcast, then please send us an email at alumnicareers@holycross.edu. If you like what you hear, then please leave us a review.
This podcast is brought to you by the Office of Alumni Relations at the College of the Holy cross. You can subscribe for future episodes wherever you find your podcasts.
I'm your host Maura Sweeney and this is Mission-Driven. In the words of Saint Ignatius of Loyola, now go forth and set the world on fire.
Theme music composed by Scott Holmes, courtesy of freemusicarchive.org.